Supershigi Forum

*Melolune* => In-Game Discussions => Topic started by: Unnamed on February 11, 2012, 09:40:58 AM

Title: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Unnamed on February 11, 2012, 09:40:58 AM
I was surprised to see that Melolune didn't have a page on TVtropes (http://tvtropes.org/).

Now I couldn't resist and spent the entire day with collecting tropes for Melolune (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/Melolune). I've collected 30 tropes so far, and sure there are many many more that fit, considering how complex Melolune is. It has Loads and Loads of Tropes! After all, trope-collecting is quite fun, and to be honest I'm pretty much proud of my collection. :)

Feel free to help me out if you feel like to! Please revise if the tropes I collected really apply. There are some I'm unsure about.

For example, I'm unsure whether the Loads and Loads of Characters trope really applies. Though it's been a while I played the demo and there are a lot of details I don't remember. If I remember correctly, most characters had names. But I think it's also a requirement that most of them should be recurring characters. (Hmm, forgot about Character Development and Character Depth! Good that it came to my mind.) Well, as I see, many characters are recurring, but I'm not sure if they are enough to earn the LLC trope.

Please feel to fix any errors you find on the page.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Omni on February 11, 2012, 10:44:37 PM
I just spent a fair chunk of time in Tropes and haven't found anything to contribute, yet. ^_^;  Granted, I'm not much of a troper, but if I think of/find something, I'll still try to contribute.


EDIT: Wait...  Can you edit Trope pages if you don't have an account?  'Cause I thought of something and found a trope that seems like it fits, but I can't seem to find an 'edit' button.  If someone could edit it for me, I'd appreciate it.

Related to being (un)able to see Melolune:
Invisible to Normals (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InvisibleToNormals), most likely.

Someone may also want to look over Stock Super Powers. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StockSuperPowers)
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Unnamed on February 12, 2012, 08:26:44 PM
And now you're thinking with tropes! <<*GLaDOS voice.*>>

Nice find! Invisible to Normals really applies! I'll add it next time I edit the page. By the way, you can easily create an account on TVtropes (which they rather call "handle"). It doesn't even ask for your e-mail address - only a name and a password is required, though be careful, because then you need to remember your password, since there is no password recovery. And there is an "edit page" link on the top of the pages, with a lot of other buttons. Hard to pick, I remember I also didn't find it at first.

TVtropes is pretty much addictive, indeed. Whenever I open it, I end up having ~50 different TVtropes tabs open... You open a page of a movie/series/video game, see what tropes it has, open some of them to get detailed information, look for known movies/series/video games listed for those tropes, open some other movies/series/video games... and it's an exponential, never ending process... you finish it when you really have to for some reason. It's easy to spend an entire day digging tropes. Despite being an old site, I only found it last summer. Since then I always look up the tropes for all kinds of media I encounter. :D

Well if you browse it much, some pretty much popular tropes will stuck in your head and then it will be easier to collect tropes. But most cases you don't need to collect tropes, because they are usually collected by others already. :P For example, I was shocked to find that even Vuk (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VukTheLittleFox) has a page on TVtropes. Basically, it took a long time to find anything that's not already on TVtropes. Melolune is only the 2nd page I've created. (The first one is this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/Absorption).) Actually, I was surprised it wasn't already there.

One important thing to know about tropes: every little detail you can pick in a work is a trope, and most likely have a page for it on TVtropes already. If it isn't there directly, you might have found a subversion, inversion, aversion, etc. of an existing trope. If accidentally you really find something that isn't a trope, create a page for it, and it's a trope afterwards. For example, I think I've found out a trope which I call "Orange Blossom Effect", but I'm berry sure there is already a trope for the phenomenon with some other name, I just couldn't find it yet - though if I'll be unable to find it eventually, I'll really write a page for it.

So, there are tropes in all details! Let's get back to Melolune! Just to make an excercise, try to pick some details those are most probably tropes. Now I played a little with Melolune, so I have fresh memories to revise for tropes. I'll try to search for these on TVtropes some other time. I won't list tropes which I already listed on the TVtropes page.

  • Big sister doesn't have a name - sure a trope. Not just No Name Given, but sure there is a concrete version where a family member or close relative doesn't have a name. As I said, will try to look it up. (Btw, what's with this "big sister"? Is she silent? 'Cause that's also a trope. Hehe, maybe she's Liele - I would be shocked for sure! :D)
  • Accident happened in a mine.
  • Parents die... Orphans! Ohh, how it didn't come to my mind earlier?
  • Lots of useless items... Maybe there is a Loads and Loads of Items or something.
  • What's behind those unbreakable crystals? It's a secret. This may utilize multiple tropes. (One is the secret, and one is the unbreakable obstacle that supposedly can be broken later, when you'll have the necessary skills.)
  • Houses on trees!
  • Openable crates.
  • Dialogs and a bunch of RPG tropes...
  • Can't save during the tutorial... might be a trope.
  • Activating a bridge.
  • Sleepwalking, footprints, waking someone up, building a home...

And this is the point where I got bored of collecting. Might continue later. And anyway, not sure that all of them worth to list. I like the snappy titles of tropes, remind me of the usually snappy titles of achievements (those you may get in a game, like in Steam games). This is why I find achievements funny too. Moreover, I also like the sarcastic examples. :D

Anyway, now that I look at it, maybe my memory tricked me in a lot of things, for it's almost been a year I played the game... For example, maybe there aren't really so many clothes in it. I clearly remember the "Fabulous Garb"... maybe it was too much in itself. :D For some reason I remembered the game is full of clothes.

Nah, have to sleep. zzz Already left too short time to sleep for myself. <<*Sigh.*>>
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Omni on February 12, 2012, 11:16:11 PM
Trust me, I know about what a trope is and how addictive the site can be.  The reason I don't have an account is because I try to avoid getting on TVTropes a lot of the time because I know from experience just how addicting they can be. XD  (Also, not having an account means being unable to edit things which means one less reason to spend extra time there.)  I have successfully managed to avoid looking at a ton of tropes on occasion when seeing a friend reference one, but it doesn't always work.  Though based on my experience the other day, looks like specifically looking for tropes I don't know the name of is even worse than normal browsing. ^_^;

So yeah, currently on the fence as to whether to actually get an account (or 'handle').  At the very least, for the meantime, I'll let you guys know whenever I come up with anything. :)

In the mean time, another question: What does it mean when a larger red dot (that looks a pinch like a yin-yang symbol) is next to a trope, as opposed to a smaller black one?
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Unnamed on February 13, 2012, 05:59:52 PM
Added a bunch of new tropes, check them out! :P

Berserk Button
Beta Test
Cool Shades
Fan Work
Flashback
Forced Level Grinding
Game Maker
Happily Adopted
I Am Not Weasel
Indie Game
Invisible to Normals
It Got Worse
Mooks
Multi Platform
No Name Given
Start To Save
You Gotta Have Blue Hair



In the mean time, another question: What does it mean when a larger red dot (that looks a pinch like a yin-yang symbol) is next to a trope, as opposed to a smaller black one?

Ahh, that's a warning that those trope references should be moved to the YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) namespace, but still I prefer them as they are as for now. Maybe another troper will do so upon encountering the page. Also the page should be indexed somewhere.

Anyway, I really need to re-play Melolune to be able to list tropes accurately. My memory tricks me on a lot of things. For example, I thought "Mook Debut Cutscene" applies, but then I played with the game today, and found out it doesn't.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: supershigi on February 13, 2012, 10:40:59 PM
I'm not too familiar with tropes, but I had a really fun time reading through that page... Thank-you for making it! 
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Strawfairy on February 14, 2012, 01:26:59 PM
Excuse me for being silly, but I has a question:

Why would someone want tropes for their creation?

I mean, if Ghost Shards or my comic had a TVTropes page, I'd probably be wondering what I did wrong and how I'm not original.

Maybe I'm just confused? o.o
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Just Lance on February 14, 2012, 02:33:09 PM
^I think that Bruce Sterling said being it a "wry fanfic analysis" but that doesn't mean that it's bad. ;)

Also Originality in this space and time is... Kinda impossible.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Strawfairy on February 14, 2012, 02:50:34 PM
Not true originality, but originality where it feels that way.

I'm not trying to be truly original, but interesting.

But why point out that what you have isn't original or something similar? I don't really understand.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Omni on February 14, 2012, 04:14:42 PM
As the site itself says in several places, Tropes are not automatically bad.  They're things that commonly show up and that can be used, but that doesn't make them bad (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools).

Quote
Tropes are devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations. On the whole, tropes are not clichés. The word clichéd means "stereotyped and trite." In other words, dull and uninteresting. We are not looking for dull and uninteresting entries. We are here to recognize tropes and play with them, not to make fun of them.


As the page I linked says, even having not so good tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadWriting) doesn't make a work as a whole bad.  Maybe it could use some work, yes, but it's still just one trait of the work.


On that note, possibly as a 'Your Mileage May Vary' under 'Tear Jerker,' I feel that Show, Don't Tell (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShowDontTell) or something related applies.  Basically, I feel that in the current demo, while the characters technically follow out on their beliefs and such after the 'kick the dog' moment and such, we don't see a lot of them reacting to the events.  Yes, they say that they're upset, and there's the emotes... but during what should be their 'reaction' scenes, there's not a lot beyond that at this point.  No taking steps back, looking in other directions, or punching the wall or anything. :/  I may need to look over the game and some tropes again for specifics, but that's the basics.

It's subverted somewhat around this point...
When Achaius is surprised enough by accidentally using his lightning ability (that he forgot about) that he falls through a hole he just made.
...Though it still feels like that scene could use a little something more, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Unnamed on February 15, 2012, 03:57:17 AM
Excuse me for being silly, but I has a question:

Why would someone want tropes for their creation?

I mean, if Ghost Shards or my comic had a TVTropes page, I'd probably be wondering what I did wrong and how I'm not original.

Maybe I'm just confused? o.o


WOW.

You're completely missing the point (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DramaticallyMissingThePoint). Even though it's really easy to misinterpret the site's intention - I remember when I read the first page there, I also had a feeling that the site's mocking one of my favourite shows for not being original, and it felt bad, though just a little bit. At the same point, I also found the tropes fun. And later when I understood the site's true nature, the little bad feeling completely went away, and so now I'm just freely enjoying reading the site.

The point is, that tropes are not bad, and not good: they are tools (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools). And it's not relevant if you want or not want them, plan with or without them, you'll have tropes anyway (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheTropelessTale). And again, there's nothing bad about it.

Moreover, there's nothing bad about analyzing a work (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoffsLaw). It can be quite fun (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife). (Hell, if my Literature teacher would have taught analyzing as TV Tropes does, probably I would have liked Literature, which was actually one of my most hated subjects, besides other humanities.)

Actually, if I created something that would deserve getting a page on TV Tropes, and someone would actually make it, I would feel berry much honored. It would imply that my work worths analyzing and it's famous enough to actually get analyzed.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Just Lance on February 15, 2012, 07:59:28 AM
Also TVTropes explains a lot of "slang". Like "Red shirt army" or "A-Team firing"
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Strawfairy on February 15, 2012, 01:46:49 PM
Excuse me for being silly, but I has a question:

Why would someone want tropes for their creation?

I mean, if Ghost Shards or my comic had a TVTropes page, I'd probably be wondering what I did wrong and how I'm not original.

Maybe I'm just confused? o.o


WOW.

You're completely missing the point ([url]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DramaticallyMissingThePoint[/url]). Even though it's really easy to misinterpret the site's intention - I remember when I read the first page there, I also had a feeling that the site's mocking one of my favourite shows for not being original, and it felt bad, though just a little bit. At the same point, I also found the tropes fun. And later when I understood the site's true nature, the little bad feeling completely went away, and so now I'm just freely enjoying reading the site.

The point is, that tropes are not bad, and not good: they are tools ([url]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools[/url]). And it's not relevant if you want or not want them, plan with or without them, you'll have tropes anyway ([url]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheTropelessTale[/url]). And again, there's nothing bad about it.

Moreover, there's nothing bad about analyzing a work ([url]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoffsLaw[/url]). It can be quite fun ([url]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife[/url]). (Hell, if my Literature teacher would have taught analyzing as TV Tropes does, probably I would have liked Literature, which was actually one of my most hated subjects, besides other humanities.)

Actually, if I created something that would deserve getting a page on TV Tropes, and someone would actually make it, I would feel berry much honored. It would imply that my work worths analyzing and it's famous enough to actually get analyzed.


You could've said the first part a lot nicer, Unnamed.

I just was wondering, geesh.

Please, consider other people's feelings and emotional issues on this site. Thank you.

(I didn't read all of it, because I got too upset by your first two sentences).
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: spellbunny on February 15, 2012, 01:53:41 PM
Unnamed, that was a little harsh .. -_-

thanks for explaining, albeit a little opinionated.

 I had no idea what the point of that website was; I think a literal description of the site would be better, not just why people choose to use it.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: supershigi on February 15, 2012, 02:34:52 PM
Quote from: Unnamed
WOW.

You're completely missing the point.

I'm sure you didn't mean to come off this way, but it was a bit rude... We'd really appreciate it if in the future you worded things a little less harshly.

But thank-you for taking the time to explain the site.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Unnamed on February 15, 2012, 03:43:42 PM
Oh nooo, I really didn't mean to be that harsh. :(
Now I have emotional issues too, I really feel bad that it all resulted this. I'm sorry! :'(

Though I can't resist to note that it's a normal temper for a critical debate, which is common on the Internet (and it's far from flaming or trolling or disrespective behaviour). Though I see it's unfamiliar here. I'll try to be more careful in the future.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Strawfairy on February 15, 2012, 03:49:46 PM
It's alright Unnamed, we'll just have to be careful in the future. ^^
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: supershigi on February 15, 2012, 03:57:00 PM
Quote from: Unnamed
Oh nooo, I really didn't mean to be that harsh.
Now I have emotional issues too, I really feel bad that it all resulted this. I'm sorry!

Though I can't resist to note that it's a normal temper for a critical debate, which is common on the Internet (and it's far from flaming or trolling or disrespective behaviour). Though I see it's unfamiliar here. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

No worries... But just pointing out: it was far from a "critical debate" -- Strawberry merely asked a question.  That's why your response was unnecessarily harsh :P 
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Unnamed on February 15, 2012, 03:59:42 PM
All right, then. :) Anyway, I'd really like if you read the least of my message, because my explanation is pretty good, I think.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Omni on February 16, 2012, 01:32:00 PM
Oh nooo, I really didn't mean to be that harsh. :(
Now I have emotional issues too, I really feel bad that it all resulted this. I'm sorry! :'(

Though I can't resist to note that it's a normal temper for a critical debate, which is common on the Internet (and it's far from flaming or trolling or disrespective behaviour). Though I see it's unfamiliar here. I'll try to be more careful in the future.


*patpat*  It's okay.  It seems like this happens to me all (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThatCameOutWrong).

Of (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CultureClash).

The (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ValuesDissonance).

Time (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PunctuatedForEmphasis).  (Particularly on the internet.)

I think I'll note that Strawberry sounded fairly critical to me as well. :/  Overall, I think this was a case of 'communication sucks without having at least an audible tone of voice to go by' (which seems like it should have a trope, but I haven't spotted one like that yet).

... I was going to add something else, but I got lost in Tropes and forgot what it was. ^_^;  I guess you could say that, tone aside, I still feel that Unnamed's response was pretty valid.  Also, while Unnamed may have sounded rude, angry, or harsh, I don't think that's reason enough to tell him about such in a rude-or-angry-or-otherwis-harsh way as well. ^_^;
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Strawfairy on February 16, 2012, 02:11:09 PM
I'm not really sure what you guys mean by sounding critical, but to me - I sounded confused. I just wanted something cleared up. It's as simple as that, really.

Unnamed, shouldn't have said, "WOW. Way to completely miss the point" to me. That's the only part that sounded rude to me. It made me sound like I'm dumb and I should know what's going on - which I don't.

I know what the site is about, and I've been there before reading some tropes on games/webcomics and it just sounds like they're poking fun at them. I got kind of sad reading them actually, wondering about my own creations.

Though, I guess if someone did think my story/game was good enough, that they'd fully analyze it, then I would think I did something right. Lols. I don't know.

It's just really confusing, I guess. /shrug
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Unnamed on February 17, 2012, 06:24:06 PM
I think I'll note that Strawberry sounded fairly critical to me as well. :/  Overall, I think this was a case of 'communication sucks without having at least an audible tone of voice to go by' (which seems like it should have a trope, but I haven't spotted one like that yet).

I avert this trope. I'm such a textual being. Usually I can't explain stuff in real-life as well as by text.

Unnamed, shouldn't have said, "WOW. Way to completely miss the point" to me. That's the only part that sounded rude to me. It made me sound like I'm dumb and I should know what's going on - which I don't.

Let me explain. While the "WOW. You're completely missing the point." part really had some snarky edge (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadpanSnarker), it didn't mean to be hurtful in any way. Because I recognised myself that it can be interpreted in the wrong way (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThatCameOutWrong) (the way you explained above), I continued my post with this: "Even though it's really easy to misinterpret the site's intention - I remember when I read the first page there, I also had a feeling that the site's mocking one of my favourite shows for not being original, and it felt bad, though just a little bit.". By admitting that the site's intention is so easy to misinterpret that I also did it myself, I eliminated the possible unfortunate implications (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnfortunateImplications) of the previous sentence: it proves that I didn't mean to imply that you're dumb or you should have known what's going on in the first place (or the other interpretation would be that I think I'm just as dumb as you, which is unlikely because it's almost as unfortunate as the original possible negative interpretation I wanted to avoid).
Q. E. D.

The only thing you should have done to avoid the misunderstanding is to continue reading my post, because a text should be interpreted as a whole. By concentrating only one sentence of it, you practically quote mined (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_quoting_out_of_context) my text - which is something that I could take the wrong way... which I don't. Of course then I shouldn't have included that unfortunate (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnfortunateImplications) sentence, but frankly I couldn't imagine that it would lead to this.

I had to explain this because I really wouldn't like to stay in the state of guilt (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClearMyName) for a misunderstanding. It just happens. Anyway, I wouldn't like to talk about this case anymore, I think it's overtalked already. We should discuss tropes here...

So please love, peace, fluffy bunnies (and cats!), Leebles, and everything... and berries (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SugarBowl)!


Other (unrelated) thing: I've found an ally! \o/ As I was browsing TV Tropes, I got to a random troper's page: ccoa (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Tropers/Ccoa). The only thing I've known before I've seen her profile that she's really into TV Tropes. Then I liked her profile that much (particularly the "software engineer" and "makes videogames and writes" parts) that I had to send her a PM, asking her help to find certain video game tropes. Her answer surprised me:

Quote from: ccoa
Oh, Melolune has a playable demo? Way to go, Shigi! I'm going to have to play that.

I'd be happy to help trope it and help you find related tropes. Ask away.

You can also open a thread in the Video Games subforum to talk about/pimp/trope the game.

It turned out she knows Shigi, and she's already heard about Melolune (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsASmallWorldAfterAll) (they've met on certain forums previously). Though Shigi is pretty famous, it's still amusing that a totally random folk I encounter on a totally different site, knows her.

It's so awesome to have a hardcore troper to help with the Melolune trope page! She's already cleaned up the page and added the Ridiculously Cute Critter (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RidiculouslyCuteCritter) trope, which applies to Leebles. :) I wish she joined here!
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: supershigi on February 22, 2012, 10:50:11 PM
There is no way anyone could rationally interpret Strawberry's initial response as being critical.  Let me copy and paste what she said:

Quote from: Strawberry
Excuse me for being silly, but I has a question:

Why would someone want tropes for their creation?

If you preface your question with "excuse me for being silly," and follow that up with a rational question, you are not being critical, you are politely asking a reasonable question.

Quote from: Unnamed
By admitting that the site's intention is so easy to misinterpret that I also did it myself, I eliminated the possible unfortunate implications of the previous sentence: it proves that I didn't mean to imply that you're dumb or you should have known what's going on in the first place (or the other interpretation would be that I think I'm just as dumb as you, which is unlikely because it's almost as unfortunate as the original possible negative interpretation I wanted to avoid).

Okay, for future reference: If you don't want to come off as being snarky or condescending, the most effective way to communicate that is to refrain from opening your explanation with a snarky and condescending sentence.  The other benefit to this, is that more people will be inclined to read what you have to say. 

Quote from: Unnamed
The only thing you should have done to avoid the misunderstanding is to continue reading my post, because a text should be interpreted as a whole. By concentrating only one sentence of it, you practically quote mined my text - which is something that I could take the wrong way... which I don't. Of course then I shouldn't have included that unfortunate sentence, but frankly I couldn't imagine that it would lead to this.

Lesson in good communication: Do not start off your post with an unwarranted snarky and slightly condescending sentence if you want the person to continue reading.  Like I said earlier -- this was not a critical debate, and I'm not sure why you took it as such.  If you look at Strawberry's initial post, she apologized for "being silly" and then asked a perfectly reasonable question.  Responding with "WOW. You completely missed the point" was a disproportionate response. 

I understand that you didn't mean any harm.  But it was in no way Strawberry's responsibility to read the rest of your post.  If you want someone to take the time to read your posts, you have to be polite.  If you start off with a rude sentence that was completely uncalled for, there is no reason for her to continue reading.  The rest of your post didn't somehow make the first sentence reasonable.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Omni on February 23, 2012, 02:07:48 AM
What did he do right? :/
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: supershigi on February 23, 2012, 02:53:45 PM
Quote from: Unnamed
Other (unrelated) thing: I've found an ally! \o/ As I was browsing TV Tropes, I got to a random troper's page: ccoa. The only thing I've known before I've seen her profile that she's really into TV Tropes. Then I liked her profile that much (particularly the "software engineer" and "makes videogames and writes" parts) that I had to send her a PM, asking her help to find certain video game tropes.

Ah, that's really cool!  I remember ccoa being into tropes -- I think that's actually how I might have first heard about that site.  She's like a super woman... I remember being really impressed that she was able to contribute so much to the rpg maker community while also holding a full-time software engineer job and raising children.  I hope she's doing well.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Unnamed on February 27, 2012, 12:46:14 AM
What did he do right? :/

I'm also really curious...

Shigi...... I really didn't like your message you posted above. I hope it wasn't your original intention, but I felt it quite condescending (which is ironical, after your not-to-be-condescending rant) and also humiliating. The part that "There is no way anyone could rationally interpret Strawberry's initial response as being critical." actually renders me (and also Omni) irrational, which is kind of offending for me.

I read Strawberry's sentences in a slightly sarcastic tone, it left me with the impression that she not only doesn't know tropes, but she also dislikes them, has prejudice against them, and thus it sounded critical. Now I understand she didn't mean it that way, and I got it after she said "I'm not really sure what you guys mean by sounding critical, but to me - I sounded confused.". I had no problems with reinterpreting her sentences as she meant it.

And "WOW. You're completely missing the point." wasn't even rude. I was just jesting. I didn't mean it as Strawberry is dumb or something. You completely misinterpreted it. Anyway, why would I be rude to Strawberry, since I happen to like her? Or course I won't tell her rude sentences!

Besides, it all is irrelevant now, since I understood that Strawberry wasn't critical, Strawberry understood I didn't mean any harm, and so we're all right, as we both confirmed. And I learned that I won't post such risky sentences in the future, and I understood that regardless it wasn't a rude sentence, I still shouldn't have posted it, because it can be pretty much easily misinterpreted, as some of you demonstrated. Finally, I must tell that I find it ridiculous that I'm still being persecuted for a single misinterpreted sentence I posted more than a week ago.


Quote from: Unnamed
Other (unrelated) thing: I've found an ally! \o/ As I was browsing TV Tropes, I got to a random troper's page: ccoa. The only thing I've known before I've seen her profile that she's really into TV Tropes. Then I liked her profile that much (particularly the "software engineer" and "makes videogames and writes" parts) that I had to send her a PM, asking her help to find certain video game tropes.


Ah, that's really cool!  I remember ccoa being into tropes -- I think that's actually how I might have first heard about that site.  She's like a super woman... I remember being really impressed that she was able to contribute so much to the rpg maker community while also holding a full-time software engineer job and raising children.  I hope she's doing well.

I wouldn't know how she's doing exactly, but soon you'll have the chance to ask her! You know, I took the liberty to invite her to this berry forum, and she's already registered (http://www.supershigi.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=2225). ;) I hope she's going to turn up in the next few weeks. She said she needs her laptop fixed first.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: supershigi on February 27, 2012, 01:20:13 AM
1.) You are not being persecuted.  The reason I wrote the 2nd post was because although your initial response indicated that you understood that sort of reaction was harsh/unecessary; you seemed to renege on your position afterwards by trying to justify what you wrote.  I completely understand that you did not mean to be harsh, but the point still remains that responding to a polite question with a snarky and condescending remark is going to be perceived as unnecessarily aggressive.  You treated it (as you said yourself) as a "critical debate," which it clearly wasn't.  No one is saying you are a harsh person.  No one is saying you meant to be harsh when you wrote that.  We're only saying that the statement itself in that context was inappropriate, and to please avoid that in the future :)

2.) There really is no logical justification for interpreting Strawberry's intial post as critical.  Just because you call something "critical" does not make it so -- there was no evidence (contextual or otherwise) to support that claim.  I've offered the following: She prefaced a politely worded question with a disclaimer that she was being silly.  She closed with a direct statement indicating her state of mind: "confused."  There is no logical reason to infer sarcasm or criticism.  The only reasonable justification for interpreting her post as critical and/or sarcastic would be if there were examples of that sort of behavior elsewhere on the forum; but there isn't.  So no, my message wasn't offensive, it was objective: "critical" is not a logical inference based on what Strawberry wrote. 

Quote from: Unnamed
And "WOW. You're completely missing the point." wasn't even rude. I was just jesting. I didn't mean it as Strawberry is dumb or something. You completely misinterpreted it.

You have to understand that just because you didn't mean to be rude, it doesn't make the statement itself any less rude in that context.  And if spellbunny, Strawberry, the staff and I all "misinterpreted" your intentions, it was because it was indeed a rude statement.  Now does this mean we think you meant harm now that you've explained it?  No, of course not :)

Please understand -- At this point we all know that you didn't mean any harm.  The argument isn't whether or not you meant harm, it's that a statement like "WOW. You're completely missing the point" in response to a polite question is easily going to be perceived as unnecessarily aggressive in that context.  It's not everyone else's responsibility to assume a poster doesn't mean harm when they write something better suited for a critical debate in response to a polite question.  It is the poster's responsibility to try and be aware of whether or not that kind of statement is appropriate.

So to sum it up: We know that you didn't mean any harm.  In that context, the statement seemed harsh, but we know you didn't mean it.  In the future, please be more aware of whether or not the way you word something is appropriate/harsh/etc. 

Beyond that, it's not a big deal at all.  So let's just get back to the thread.  Any further discussion about the other stuff will be deleted and a warning will be issued.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Omni on February 27, 2012, 04:19:50 PM
Beyond that, it's not a big deal at all.  So let's just get back to the thread.  Any further discussion about the other stuff will be deleted and a warning will be issued.

How about in PMs or another thread?  I'm really, really not fond of when someone states their latest opinion/view/observation as 'final' without giving the other party a chance of stating their next/full counter-point. >.<
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: spellbunny on February 27, 2012, 05:21:54 PM
^ to be quite honest at this point it's all about thread derailment.

I think it's fair to say that we all understand everyone's point of view now; and most importantly that this was a simple misunderstanding over the tone of the conversation. We can't keep arguing about that. That being said a private message rather than public forum would be best although knowing when to drop an issue is also important.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: supershigi on February 27, 2012, 08:58:49 PM
Quote from: Omni
How about in PMs or another thread?  I'm really, really not fond of when someone states their latest opinion/view/observation as 'final' without giving the other party a chance of stating their next/full counter-point. >.<

This is not a debate: At this forum, it is not okay to respond to polite questions with condescending remarks.  We know he didn't mean to come off that way, and we know he'll consider his choice of wording in the future in order to prevent miscommunication: end of story.  As spellbunny said, there is really no point to keep arguing about that here or in a PM.  It's time to drop this.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: HawkThePirate on May 10, 2014, 01:44:23 PM
The TVtropes page was wrong about,something. Well, it was wrong about several things such as the "child soldiers" since we now know that Dominic is not a child or teenager. However, they were wrong about something BIG time! They said that Big Sister was unnamed. This was not due to laziness. This is a HUGE point in the plot, Big Sister's real name, and I will not spoil it, or even reveal how I came across the information, but-well, now you all know how I came across it, but I actually posted this originally before I impetuously posted that (Gah! I never liked this name, but,) hacking guide which has now thankfully been removed.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: HawkThePirate on May 18, 2014, 01:13:58 AM
Quote from: Unnamed
Other (unrelated) thing: I've found an ally! \o/ As I was browsing TV Tropes, I got to a random troper's page: ccoa. The only thing I've known before I've seen her profile that she's really into TV Tropes. Then I liked her profile that much (particularly the "software engineer" and "makes videogames and writes" parts) that I had to send her a PM, asking her help to find certain video game tropes.

Ah, that's really cool!  I remember ccoa being into tropes -- I think that's actually how I might have first heard about that site.  She's like a super woman... I remember being really impressed that she was able to contribute so much to the rpg maker community while also holding a full-time software engineer job and raising children.  I hope she's doing well.
What's more, she made the famous Universal Messaging System and possibly the Tiny Overworld Sprites scripts, which are both in Melolune. I had actually known Ccoa for this before reading this post, and I didn't even realize that she was a girl, haha!  :D
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Unnamed on May 18, 2014, 01:28:10 AM
However, they were wrong about something BIG time! They said that Big Sister was unnamed. This was not due to laziness. This is a HUGE point in the plot, Big Sister's real name, and I will not spoil it, or even reveal how I came across the information, but I'm just saying, a lot of you DO know her name, just not in the way you would expect....

Since the TVtropes page was based on the public demo and Big Sister's name is not revealed in it, the page is correct. It shall be updated when the full game is released.


No, she's not Liele, but you'll still sure be shocked! Hee, hee.  :P

I've always suspected (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/Melolune) the secret of Big Sister's name is a plot device and that it will be revealed later in the game. Frankly, I really speculated it's Liele, but to be honest I'd find that somehow cheap, so I'm glad it's not her after all.


What's more, she made the famous Universal Messaging System and possibly the Tiny Overworld Sprites scripts,which are both in Melolune. I had actually known Ccoa for thisbefore reading this post, and I didn't even realize that she was a girl, haha!  :D

Coder girls rock! :D
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: HawkThePirate on May 18, 2014, 11:57:03 AM
Point taken. It DID say Melolune, but it would make logical sense that it would be based on the demo since that's all we-you-have. Of course, I wasn't actually criticizing you, my loose lips just desperately wanted to let out a hint. I'm trying to kick the habit.  :P
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: supershigi on May 18, 2014, 12:22:41 PM
An issue I have with "No Name Given" is that it doesn't take into account the fact that in some cultures, siblings don't call their big sisters/brothers by their actual names. A little bit of research could reveal that the person who made the game is Japanese... and in Japanese culture, younger siblings call their older brothers and sisters "oniichan"/"oneechan" (which means older brother/older sister). This is why in a lot of localized Japanese media, you'll often find siblings saying something like "brother" or "big sister" rather than their real names. If you were to watch one scene from a localized Japanese movie, hearing a boy refer to his sister as "big sister" doesn't mean she isn't named elsewhere; it also doesn't mean that her name was intentionally left out.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: Merlandese on May 18, 2014, 05:41:08 PM
An issue I have with "No Name Given" is that it doesn't take into account the fact that in some cultures, siblings don't call their big sisters/brothers by their actual names. A little bit of research could reveal that the person who made the game is Japanese... and in Japanese culture, younger siblings call their older brothers and sisters "oniichan"/"oneechan" (which means older brother/older sister). This is why in a lot of localized Japanese media, you'll often find siblings saying something like "brother" or "big sister" rather than their real names. If you were to watch one scene from a localized Japanese movie, hearing a boy refer to his sister as "big sister" doesn't mean she isn't named elsewhere; it also doesn't mean that her name was intentionally left out.

That's pretty interesting.

In my absolutely-USA-white family, we all call each other by position as well. I'm Brother to my sisters and Cousin to my Cousins, Son to my father and Grandson to my grandmother, etc. My father was called Uncle by my cousins, and aunts were called Aunty.

Even more is that sometimes our names would change not by who was talking to us, but by who was supposed to hear it. So my grandma would call me Brother if she was talking to my sister about me. Likewise, she calls her son Son unless she's around his siblings (all of her children), in which scenario she calls him Brother.

The addition of "big" or "little" to each name also applied. So I see it highly fathomable that there's a character who never gets called by her real name, but rather her position in the family. :D
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: HawkThePirate on May 18, 2014, 07:21:17 PM
An issue I have with "No Name Given" is that it doesn't take into account the fact that in some cultures, siblings don't call their big sisters/brothers by their actual names. A little bit of research could reveal that the person who made the game is Japanese... and in Japanese culture, younger siblings call their older brothers and sisters "oniichan"/"oneechan" (which means older brother/older sister). This is why in a lot of localized Japanese media, you'll often find siblings saying something like "brother" or "big sister" rather than their real names. If you were to watch one scene from a localized Japanese movie, hearing a boy refer to his sister as "big sister" doesn't mean she isn't named elsewhere; it also doesn't mean that her name was intentionally left out.

Wow, that's really interesting. I like to study Chinese culture and I know that they did that, but I didn't know that the Japanese did that, too.
Okay, so we now know that Gleemers are part Japanese (not a phony spoiler, just a joke :P), but that does explain why the brothers refer to her as Big Sister.
Still, though, you and I very well know that that is not the sole reason her name is not stated at the beginning...

Well, actually, no. I remember now that they say First brother, Second sister etc. in Chinese culture, not Big brother, little sister etc., my mistake.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: supershigi on May 18, 2014, 10:03:45 PM
@Merlandese: That's really interesting, thank-you for sharing about that^^ It's kind of neat to know that families here also use "brother" and "sister" as well.

@HawkthePirate: I know you probably didn't mean to, but if you're going to post a spoiler, you need to hide it within a spoiler tag (please let us know if you don't know how to do this). If you accidentally post spoilers (or reveal information that was not publicly released), a staff member will immediately add spoiler tags or remove information as needed.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: HawkThePirate on May 19, 2014, 12:31:25 AM

@HawkthePirate: I know you probably didn't mean to, but if you're going to post a spoiler, you need to hide it within a spoiler tag (please let us know if you don't know how to do this).

I do not know how to do this, although I do know what you are talking about

@HawkthePirate: If you accidentally post spoilers (or reveal information that was not publicly released), a staff member will immediately add spoiler tags or remove information as needed.
Thank you, I actually appreciate the admins fixing my mistakes. As I said to Melaniipon, although this is the first forum I have been a part of, I've been around a lot of them, and most don't have the patience (or forgiveness) for these kinds of impetuous actions and just block the person. You guys on the other hand, are very understanding and as far as I know, have not banned anyone except for one spambot (but I will not ask you to confirm or deny that fact).
That's the long answer. The short answer? Thanks, all of you, for trying to help me and for putting up with my rash decisions.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: supershigi on May 20, 2014, 03:00:55 PM
Thank-you for being so polite and receptive about things. I totally understand about being new to forums -- the first time I joined a forum, I felt like there were a lot of subtle things about the forum culture I had to pick up on over time. So yeah, if you ever have a question, feel free to ask ^_^

As for how to use spoiler tags: When you make a new post (or reply), above the Leeble emoticons do you see the formatting buttons (where you can make text bold, italicized, underlined, etc.)? Underneath the button to make text bold (which is a letter "B"), there is a button "Sp." Simply click that, and put your spoiler text inside of those brackets.
Title: Re: Melolune TVtropes page
Post by: HawkThePirate on May 20, 2014, 04:23:53 PM
Thank you, for telling me how to find the spoiler button and the other functions above the emoticons. I actually didn't know where they were until now. (Recall that I am using a mobile device.)